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Portugal’s Revolution Transformed the Politics of Europe

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Portugal’s Revolution Transformed the Politics of Europe


Raquel Varela

Fifty years ago today, Portugal’s Carnation Revolution began as soldiers overthrew the dictatorship. Although the revolution was ultimately contained, it changed the face of European politics and hastened the shift to democracy in Spain and Greece.

The Carnation Revolution In Lisbon, Portugal, on April 25, 1974. (Jean-Claude Francolon / Gamma-Rapho via Getty Images)

Interview by
Daniel Finn
For almost half a century, Portugal was ruled by a right-wing dictatorship. António Salazar became the leader of the so-called Estado Novo in the same year Franklin Roosevelt entered the White House, and his successor Marcelo Caetano was still in power when Richard Nixon was reelected as president four decades later.

Fifty years ago today, on April 25, 1974, a group of junior army officers carried out a plan to overthrow the dictatorship. The Carnation Revolution brought down the Estado Novo and kick-started a period of intense political upheaval. Its legacy can still be felt in Europe half a century later.

Raquel Varela is a professor of history at the New University in Lisbon and the author of several books, including A People’s History of the Portuguese Revolution and a graphic novel about the Carnation Revolution. This is an edited transcript from Jacobin’s Long Reads podcast. You can listen to the interview here.


Daniel Finn

What was the nature of the Salazar-Caetano dictatorship that had ruled over Portugal since the 1920s?

Raquel Varela

There is a debate on what the Salazar regime represented, with several approaches. We have a left-wing approach connected with the tradition of the pro-Soviet Communist Party. These historians present the regime of the Estado Novo mainly as a regime that was highly conservative, fascist, anti-liberal, and hostile to parliamentary rule, representing the ultraconservative fraction of the bourgeoisie.

Then you have a second approach, closer to the political science of figures like Samuel Huntington, which became very influential after the 1990s. This approach divides up the world in very simple terms between liberal-democratic and authoritarian regimes.

There is another analysis that Leon Trotsky developed in his analysis of fascism in Germany, which was influenced by Karl Marx’s discussion of Bonapartism in nineteenth-century France. This approach sees a Bonapartist-type regime as a fake arbitrator that is seemingly trying to organize the classes in conflict with one another in a neutral way but is really acting in favor of the bourgeoisie.

I would say that the Estado Novo was a Bonapartist regime, with Salazar as the apparently neutral figure. But I should underline that the difference between Bonapartism and fascism is not a question of violence. Both types of regime are deeply violent against the organized working classes.

The main difference is that when we use the word fascism, we are referring to a civil war against the working class. Because of the threat of revolution, the bourgeoisie cannot use the army to defeat the workers, so they use militias instead. In Bonapartism, on the other hand, you can use the army, because the leadership of the working classes has already been defeated and there is no real threat of a social revolution.

In the period of the Estado Novo, which went from the military dictatorship of the 1920s until the Carnation Revolution in 1974, what we had was mainly a Bonapartist regime seeking to carry out capitalist modernization, incorporating the peasantry and the working class while prohibiting trade unions and political parties. The state guaranteed certain companies monopoly control over a sector. There was also a regime of forced labor in the colonies.

Daniel Finn

What impact did the colonial wars in Africa have on Portugal itself?

Raquel Varela

The anti-colonial process began in 1961 with the uprising in Angola. At the same time, you had growing investment in Africa by US and European companies. They wanted the petrol and cotton in Angola as well as other materials in Mozambique that were important for this new moment of capital investment.

In this context, the liberation movements in Portugal’s colonies were deeply influenced by anti-colonial revolutions and organizations in countries like Algeria and Ghana, which served as an inspiration for Guinea-Bissau, Angola, and Mozambique. In 1961, there was a strike by cotton workers in the forced-labor regime of Contanang, a Belgian-Portuguese company, in northern Angola.

The Portuguese army responded by using napalm. We don’t know exactly how many workers were killed — the estimated figure is five to ten thousand. In response to this massacre, there was a massacre of white settlers in Angola.

With tensions rising, the Soviet-influenced People’s Movement for the Liberation of Angola (MPLA) decided to start an armed struggle against Portuguese rule. The armed struggle in Guinea-Bissau begin in 1963, after the defeat of a strike by the dockworkers. In Mozambique, it began in 1964 after another strike by forced laborers who came from several different parts of the country. There was a close relationship between Angola and Mozambique and the white-settler dictatorships in South Africa and Rhodesia, as workers from the Portuguese colonies were forced to go work in the mines in those countries.

Portugal at the time had a population of fewer than ten million people. Between 1961 and 1974, 1.2 million people were recruited to fight in the colonial war. This included black people from the colonies, but a large part of this force came from Portugal itself. Practically all Portuguese families, unless they belonged to the upper class, had sons, nephews, or cousins who went to fight in Africa.

Ten thousand Portuguese soldiers died, while two hundred thousand were injured. An estimated one hundred thousand people died in Angola, Mozambique, and Guinea-Bissau. This had a huge impact in Portugal. One and a half million workers escaped to countries like France, Luxembourg, and Switzerland, fleeing from poverty and enlistment in the war.

At the same time, with greater foreign investment in Portugal, the urban population was now bigger than the rural one for the first time. This new urban population went massively to the cities of Lisbon, Porto, and Setubal, where they worked in big factories, most of which were joint enterprises of Portuguese and foreign capital. In the colonies, forced labor was officially abolished in 1961 but continued in practice until the demise of Portuguese rule in 1974–75.

Amílcar Cabral in Guinea-Bissau was a very important leader who deserves to be better known. Together with Che Guevara and Morocco’s Mehdi Ben Barka, he played a very important role in developing an internationalist and socialist approach toward the struggle for national independence.

Portugal was losing the war and was isolated on the international stage, with institutions like the UN favoring the end of colonialism. The desertion rate in the early 1970s was around 20 percent of soldiers in the army. At the same time, however, companies in France, Britain, and other countries continued to sell weapons to Portugal. About two-fifths of the state budget was being used to pay for the colonial war, in a country where people living on the outskirts of Lisbon had no access to running water and had to bring water to their homes by hand.

Daniel Finn

How did the Armed Forces Movement (MFA) take shape in response to the wars in Africa?

Raquel Varela

It was a movement of captains from the middle ranks of the army who were neither generals nor ordinary soldiers. They could understand that it was impossible to win the war militarily. They started off organizing in defense of their own corporate interests, but they later decided to mount a coup to end the colonial war. They also put forward a vague program of democratization.

Their conspiracy involved around two hundred officers. They agreed to stage the coup of April 25, 1974. These officers mainly came from Guinea-Bissau, where the army was heavily defeated and the liberation movement had already declared independence, though without being recognized by the Portuguese state. There was involvement by officers from Angola and Mozambique as well.

They organized themselves to mount a very successful coup. The regime did not know what was going to happen, and neither did the spies of the US embassy. It came as a huge surprise to people around the world. The MFA took control of the main military, communications, and transport sectors, telling people not to leave their homes.

However, many people disobeyed these instructions, taking to the streets or going to their workplaces. Suddenly you had thousands of people in the streets, embracing the soldiers, with children playing on their tanks. Everyone was smiling and celebrating.

The regime had forbidden trade unions and political parties. The Communist Party was organized as an underground party with around three thousand members. There were other left-wing groups, mainly Maoists but also some Trotskyist organizations and others inspired by the guerrillas of Latin America. Together these groups had another three thousand or so cadres, mostly coming from the universities and the opposition of young people to the colonial war.

After Israel, Portugal was the country with the highest percentage of its population incorporated into the army anywhere in the world. The war in Africa was a key factor in the radicalization of young people and the development of Marxist intellectuals and leadership teams in Portugal.

In the absence of legal parties or unions, the people themselves went to their workplaces: doctors, nurses, teachers, actors, factory workers. They began to elect their own representatives from popular assemblies, with a mandate that could be revoked if they did not carry out their instructions. Thus was born a situation of dual power, which is a feature of most revolutions.

Within days of the revolution, you had the formation of workers’ commissions and neighborhood councils in the empty space left by the absence of unions and parties. Already on April 25, workers started going to the headquarters of the state censorship body and the political police, occupying those buildings and releasing prisoners.

They also went to the headquarters of the state-sponsored trade unions and occupied them. They went to the municipal headquarters and began electing provisional commissions, while electing neighborhood commissions outside as well. These were incredible, beautiful days when we saw people making decisions in a way that they had never done before in their lives.

First of all, a national salvation junta was formed under General António de Spínola, which was trying to keep the state intact. But Spínola wanted to maintain the political police in the colonies and move toward a situation of neocolonialism. The mid-ranking officers of the MFA were totally against this, as they wanted to stop the war immediately. This created a division inside the MFA between the pro-Spínola faction and their opponents, who were the majority and won out.

The workers’ councils, known as commissions in Portugal, called a large number of strikes. There were two million people in the streets on May Day, the first one that could be celebrated in forty-eight years. They were putting forward demands for a minimum wage, an eight-hour working day, rest days on Saturday and Sunday, extra pay for night work, etc. These demands were already on the agenda in the streets a week after the revolution.

Mario Soares was the leader of the Socialist Party, which had been founded in West Germany at the beginning of the 1970s. It was a vanguard party, like the Communists, but even smaller. The Socialists did not play an important role in the opposition to the dictatorship, unlike the Communist Party or the Maoists. But Soares had the support of the United States and the West German Social Democrats, who transferred large amounts of money to fund his party.

Immediately there was a big discussion in Spain, which was still ruled by the Franco regime, about how to avoid what they called the contagious effect of the Portuguese Revolution through opening up the regime. In Greece, the dictatorship of the colonels fell in July 1974, and the first legal newspapers were celebrating the Carnation Revolution. The US president Gerald Ford spoke about the danger of a Red Mediterranean, because there were also big Communist Parties in France and Italy at the time.

In this context, Soares and the Communist leader Álvaro Cunhal returned from exile, and they were invited to form the first provisional government. This government also included the right-wing party, which called itself the Social Democratic Party because of the impact of the revolution.

They wanted to bring Cunhal and his party into the government in order to control the workers’ movement. In doing so, they broke the Cold War taboo against Communist participation in government, hoping that the coalition would be able to control the social movement, although that didn’t happen.

Daniel Finn

What were the main tendencies or differences of opinion that existed within the MFA itself?

Raquel Varela

The revolution developed and radicalized at the top. In 1975, the national banks were expropriated because they were under workers’ control. The big companies were also under workers’ control, and the small companies were under self-management — more than six hundred companies in total. The hospitals were run by doctors, nurses, and technicians. Even the cleaning lady had the vote in a hospital!

Three million people out of a population of ten million were involved in workers’ commissions, protests, and strikes. This was an incredible figure. I think that Paul Sweezy was right to say that the Portuguese Revolution was a kind of twenty-first century revolution, because there was already a huge service sector, with the proletarianization of physicians, professors, and technicians, who played an incredible role in the workers’ councils.

These all had a major impact on the MFA, which began to divide in line with the various projects that were being put forward in Portuguese society. One part of the MFA was supporting the strategy of the Communist Party to divide state power with the Socialists. Another part, led by Otelo Saraiva de Carvalho, was very engaged with the idea of popular power through workers’ commissions and neighborhood councils, and even with a Guevarist idea of a left-wing putsch. There was a clear process of “sovietization” in the army during 1975.

There was also an element with the MFA that went to the right, and there were two attempts at right-wing coups that were defeated. In the part of the MFA that supported popular power, there were some who were aligned with the officials of the Communist Party. The party leadership accepted the division of Europe into spheres of influence with Portugal under NATO, so there was no support for a revolutionary process in Portugal, but they were disputing control of the state with the Socialists.

I should mention that the Communist Party, having started off with three thousand members, had one hundred thousand after a year of the revolution. The Socialist Party, whose membership could almost have fitted in a taxi, now had eighty thousand members. The far-left groups could sell thousands of copies of their weekly publications. There was an intense process of politicization affecting the majority of Portuguese society, and this had a huge impact on the military.

The strategy of the Communists and the Socialists at the beginning was to be in the state together and divide power, albeit with tensions. After the radicalization of the revolution in 1975 there was a split between them. But the big question was how to rebuild the state and end the crisis of the state, which could only have been achieved by weakening the workers’ and neighborhood councils.

Daniel Finn

What impact did the revolution have upon Portugal’s colonies?

Raquel Varela

Immediately, there were huge demonstrations, mainly of the far left, saying, “We don’t want even a single soldier to go to the colonies.” That was the main demand. After April 25, there were several strikes by railway workers and agricultural workers in Mozambique and Angola. The soldiers refused to carry on fighting. Guinea-Bissau first became independent, then Mozambique, and finally Angola, which attracted much more attention from the United States, the Soviet Union, and China because of its oil reserves.

Daniel Finn

Could you tell us a little more about the reaction of the United States and the major West European states to what was happening in Portugal? How did they seek to intervene over the course of 1974 and 1975?

Raquel Varela

There was a divide among US government officials. Henry Kissinger apparently did not agree with the view of Frank Carlucci, the US ambassador to Lisbon. Carlucci believed that all US support should be given to the Socialists in the elections of April 1975. This was the idea of what we might call the “democratic counterrevolution.”

Instead of using the same approach that they used against Salvador Allende in Chile, which would merely have provoked the spread of the revolution to other countries in Europe, they promoted transitions guided from above, first in Portugal and then in Spain. Later the same model was applied in Chile, Brazil, and Argentina during the 1980s. I call this the “Soares Doctrine.”

Jimmy Carter was very clear in supporting this idea of democratic counterrevolution. There were strong anti-American feelings rooted in Portuguese society, so the support for Soares was channeled through the West German Social Democrats and also through Spain, which always had a close relationship with Portugal.

Portugal was definitely the cause of the Spanish transition to democracy — there is no question about that — and it had a huge impact on Greece. I believe that the Portuguese revolution also postponed the coming of neoliberalism for a decade, because of the example and inspiration that it gave people throughout southern Europe. Neoliberalism had to be postponed until the mid-1980s. Portugal’s revolution was isolated and that is why it was defeated, but it still had a major impact on the Mediterranean countries.

Daniel Finn

Along with that wider impact on the European scene, what would you say were the main legacies of the revolution for Portugal in subsequent decades and up to the present day?

Raquel Varela

Most of the people who made the revolution were in their twenties and thirties at the time. For the next forty years, these people were alive, and they were the majority. They were strong enough not to allow the extreme right to exist as a political force in Portugal. There were big improvements to health, education, and other public services, and social policies to encourage greater equality, although those services and policies have been in crisis over the last twenty years.

The legacies of the revolution are complex, because some of them are contradictory. In revolutionary processes like the one in Portugal, you always have to try and identify what is the legacy of the revolution and what is the legacy of the counterrevolution.

There were very important achievements in terms of the welfare state and workers’ rights. After the revolution was ultimately defeated by the coup of November 1975, we had a type of regulated capitalism for an important section of the working classes until the 1990s, or perhaps until 2008 for the older generation. After that point, virtually nobody was under protection.

April 25 is the national day of celebration in Portugal for the popular classes. At the same time, we can see how backward the country is now, with so much poverty. Portugal has become a place of low wages and long working hours for everyone, even qualified workers. The working class cannot afford the cost of housing in the cities. In the south, you have workers from Nepal living in terrible conditions, working for British or Portuguese companies, staying here five years to get permission to go to Central Europe.

This, of course, is not the legacy of the revolution — it is the legacy of the counterrevolution. Portugal is a small, semiperipheral country with a backward bourgeoisie that made a backward society. The one time that this country could give people a way to live decently was when the working class took their destinies into their own hands.

This is the most incredible thing for us to study: how these people who were totally outside of politics, many of whom would have been conservative in their own lives, or had very confused ideas, suddenly became involved and transformed themselves while transforming the country. In my opinion, this is our hope for the future. When people take the country into their own hands, we see how far they can reach to transform it and transform themselves.

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Beyoncé channels Pamela Anderson in ‘Baywatch’ for Halloween video asking viewers to vote

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NEW YORK (AP) — In a new video posted early Election Day, Beyoncé channels Pamela Anderson in the television program “Baywatch” – red one-piece swimsuit and all – and asks viewers to vote.

In the two-and-a-half-minute clip, set to most of “Bodyguard,” a four-minute cut from her 2024 country album “Cowboy Carter,” Beyoncé cosplays as Anderson’s character before concluding with a simple message, written in white text: “Happy Beylloween,” followed by “Vote.”

At a rally for Donald Trump in Pittsburgh on Monday night, the former president spoke dismissively about Beyoncé’s appearance at a Kamala Harris rally in Houston in October, drawing boos for the megastar from his supporters.

“Beyoncé would come in. Everyone’s expecting a couple of songs. There were no songs. There was no happiness,” Trump said.

She did not perform — unlike in 2016, when she performed at a presidential campaign rally for Hillary Clinton in Cleveland – but she endorsed Harris and gave a moving speech, initially joined onstage by her Destiny’s Child bandmate Kelly Rowland.

“I’m not here as a celebrity, I’m not here as a politician. I’m here as a mother,” Beyoncé said.

“A mother who cares deeply about the world my children and all of our children live in, a world where we have the freedom to control our bodies, a world where we’re not divided,” she said at the rally in Houston, her hometown.

“Imagine our daughters growing up seeing what’s possible with no ceilings, no limitations,” she continued. “We must vote, and we need you.”

The Harris campaign has taken on Beyonce’s track “Freedom,” a cut from her landmark 2016 album “Lemonade,” as its anthem.

Harris used the song in July during her first official public appearance as a presidential candidate at her campaign headquarters in Delaware. That same month, Beyoncé’s mother, Tina Knowles, publicly endorsed Harris for president.

Beyoncé gave permission to Harris to use the song, a campaign official who was granted anonymity to discuss private campaign operations confirmed to The Associated Press.

The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

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Justin Trudeau’s Announcing Cuts to Immigration Could Facilitate a Trump Win

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Outside of sports and a “Cold front coming down from Canada,” American news media only report on Canadian events that they believe are, or will be, influential to the US. Therefore, when Justin Trudeau’s announcement, having finally read the room, that Canada will be reducing the number of permanent residents admitted by more than 20 percent and temporary residents like skilled workers and college students will be cut by more than half made news south of the border, I knew the American media felt Trudeau’s about-face on immigration was newsworthy because many Americans would relate to Trudeau realizing Canada was accepting more immigrants than it could manage and are hoping their next POTUS will follow Trudeau’s playbook.

Canada, with lots of space and lacking convenient geographical ways for illegal immigrants to enter the country, though still many do, has a global reputation for being incredibly accepting of immigrants. On the surface, Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver appear to be multicultural havens. However, as the saying goes, “Too much of a good thing is never good,” resulting in a sharp rise in anti-immigrant sentiment, which you can almost taste in the air. A growing number of Canadians, regardless of their political affiliation, are blaming recent immigrants for causing the housing affordability crises, inflation, rise in crime and unemployment/stagnant wages.

Throughout history, populations have engulfed themselves in a tribal frenzy, a psychological state where people identify strongly with their own group, often leading to a ‘us versus them’ mentality. This has led to quick shifts from complacency to panic and finger-pointing at groups outside their tribe, a phenomenon that is not unique to any particular culture or time period.

My take on why the American news media found Trudeau’s blatantly obvious attempt to save his political career, balancing appeasement between the pitchfork crowd, who want a halt to immigration until Canada gets its house in order, and immigrant voters, who traditionally vote Liberal, newsworthy; the American news media, as do I, believe immigration fatigue is why Kamala Harris is going to lose on November 5th.

Because they frequently get the outcome wrong, I don’t take polls seriously. According to polls in 2014, Tim Hudak’s Progressive Conservatives and Kathleen Wynne’s Liberals were in a dead heat in Ontario, yet Wynne won with more than twice as many seats. In the 2018 Quebec election, most polls had the Coalition Avenir Québec with a 1-to-5-point lead over the governing Liberals. The result: The Coalition Avenir Québec enjoyed a landslide victory, winning 74 of 125 seats. Then there’s how the 2016 US election polls showing Donald Trump didn’t have a chance of winning against Hillary Clinton were ridiculously way off, highlighting the importance of the election day poll and, applicable in this election as it was in 2016, not to discount ‘shy Trump supporters;’ voters who support Trump but are hesitant to express their views publicly due to social or political pressure.

My distrust in polls aside, polls indicate Harris is leading by a few points. One would think that Trump’s many over-the-top shenanigans, which would be entertaining were he not the POTUS or again seeking the Oval Office, would have him far down in the polls. Trump is toe-to-toe with Harris in the polls because his approach to the economy—middle-class Americans are nostalgic for the relatively strong economic performance during Trump’s first three years in office—and immigration, which Americans are hyper-focused on right now, appeals to many Americans. In his quest to win votes, Trump is doing what anyone seeking political office needs to do: telling the people what they want to hear, strategically using populism—populism that serves your best interests is good populism—to evoke emotional responses. Harris isn’t doing herself any favours, nor moving voters, by going the “But, but… the orange man is bad!” route, while Trump cultivates support from “weird” marginal voting groups.

To Harris’s credit, things could have fallen apart when Biden abruptly stepped aside. Instead, Harris quickly clinched the nomination and had a strong first few weeks, erasing the deficit Biden had given her. The Democratic convention was a success, as was her acceptance speech. Her performance at the September 10th debate with Donald Trump was first-rate.

Harris’ Achilles heel is she’s now making promises she could have made and implemented while VP, making immigration and the economy Harris’ liabilities, especially since she’s been sitting next to Biden, watching the US turn into the circus it has become. These liabilities, basically her only liabilities, negate her stance on abortion, democracy, healthcare, a long-winning issue for Democrats, and Trump’s character. All Harris has offered voters is “feel-good vibes” over substance. In contrast, Trump offers the tangible political tornado (read: steamroll the problems Americans are facing) many Americans seek. With Trump, there’s no doubt that change, admittedly in a messy fashion, will happen. If enough Americans believe the changes he’ll implement will benefit them and their country…

The case against Harris on immigration, at a time when there’s a huge global backlash to immigration, even as the American news media are pointing out, in famously immigrant-friendly Canada, is relatively straightforward: During the first three years of the Biden-Harris administration, illegal Southern border crossings increased significantly.

The words illegal immigration, to put it mildly, irks most Americans. On the legal immigration front, according to Forbes, most billion-dollar startups were founded by immigrants. Google, Microsoft, and Oracle, to name three, have immigrants as CEOs. Immigrants, with tech skills and an entrepreneurial thirst, have kept America leading the world. I like to think that Americans and Canadians understand the best immigration policy is to strategically let enough of these immigrants in who’ll increase GDP and tax base and not rely on social programs. In other words, Americans and Canadians, and arguably citizens of European countries, expect their governments to be more strategic about immigration.

The days of the words on a bronze plaque mounted inside the Statue of Liberty pedestal’s lower level, “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free…” are no longer tolerated. Americans only want immigrants who’ll benefit America.

Does Trump demagogue the immigration issue with xenophobic and racist tropes, many of which are outright lies, such as claiming Haitian immigrants in Ohio are abducting and eating pets? Absolutely. However, such unhinged talk signals to Americans who are worried about the steady influx of illegal immigrants into their country that Trump can handle immigration so that it’s beneficial to the country as opposed to being an issue of economic stress.

In many ways, if polls are to be believed, Harris is paying the price for Biden and her lax policies early in their term. Yes, stimulus spending quickly rebuilt the job market, but at the cost of higher inflation. Loosen border policies at a time when anti-immigrant sentiment was increasing was a gross miscalculation, much like Trudeau’s immigration quota increase, and Biden indulging himself in running for re-election should never have happened.

If Trump wins, Democrats will proclaim that everyone is sexist, racist and misogynous, not to mention a likely White Supremacist, and for good measure, they’ll beat the “voter suppression” button. If Harris wins, Trump supporters will repeat voter fraud—since July, Elon Musk has tweeted on Twitter at least 22 times about voters being “imported” from abroad—being widespread.

Regardless of who wins tomorrow, Americans need to cool down; and give the divisive rhetoric a long overdue break. The right to an opinion belongs to everyone. Someone whose opinion differs from yours is not by default sexist, racist, a fascist or anything else; they simply disagree with you. Americans adopting the respectful mindset to agree to disagree would be the best thing they could do for the United States of America.

______________________________________________________________

 

Nick Kossovan, a self-described connoisseur of human psychology, writes about what’s

on his mind from Toronto. You can follow Nick on Twitter and Instagram @NKossovan.

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RFK Jr. says Trump would push to remove fluoride from drinking water. ‘It’s possible,’ Trump says

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PHOENIX (AP) — Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a prominent proponent of debunked public health claims whom Donald Trump has promised to put in charge of health initiatives, said Saturday that Trump would push to remove fluoride from drinking water on his first day in office if elected president.

Fluoride strengthens teeth and reduces cavities by replacing minerals lost during normal wear and tear, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The addition of low levels of fluoride to drinking water has long been considered one of the greatest public health achievements of the last century.

Kennedy made the declaration Saturday on the social media platform X alongside a variety of claims about the heath effects of fluoride.

“On January 20, the Trump White House will advise all U.S​. water systems to remove fluoride from public water,” Kennedy wrote. Trump and his wife, Melania Trump, “want to Make America Healthy Again,” he added, repeating a phrase Trump often uses and links to Kennedy.

Trump told NBC News on Sunday that he had not spoken to Kennedy about fluoride yet, “but it sounds OK to me. You know it’s possible.”

The former president declined to say whether he would seek a Cabinet role for Kennedy, a job that would require Senate confirmation, but added, “He’s going to have a big role in the administration.”

Asked whether banning certain vaccines would be on the table, Trump said he would talk to Kennedy and others about that. Trump described Kennedy as “a very talented guy and has strong views.”

The sudden and unexpected weekend social media post evoked the chaotic policymaking that defined Trump’s White House tenure, when he would issue policy declarations on Twitter at virtually all hours. It also underscored the concerns many experts have about Kennedy, who has long promoted debunked theories about vaccine safety, having influence over U.S. public health.

In 1950, federal officials endorsed water fluoridation to prevent tooth decay, and continued to promote it even after fluoride toothpaste brands hit the market several years later. Though fluoride can come from a number of sources, drinking water is the main source for Americans, researchers say.

Officials lowered their recommendation for drinking water fluoride levels in 2015 to address a tooth condition called fluorosis, that can cause splotches on teeth and was becoming more common in U.S. kids.

In August, a federal agency determined “with moderate confidence” that there is a link between higher levels of fluoride exposure and lower IQ in kids. The National Toxicology Program based its conclusion on studies involving fluoride levels at about twice the recommended limit for drinking water.

A federal judge later cited that study in ordering the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to further regulate fluoride in drinking water. U.S. District Judge Edward Chen cautioned that it’s not certain that the amount of fluoride typically added to water is causing lower IQ in kids, but he concluded that mounting research points to an unreasonable risk that it could be. He ordered the EPA to take steps to lower that risk, but didn’t say what those measures should be.

In his X post Saturday, Kennedy tagged Michael Connett, the lead attorney representing the plaintiff in that lawsuit, the environmental advocacy group Food & Water Watch.

Kennedy’s anti-vaccine organization has a lawsuit pending against news organizations including The Associated Press, accusing them of violating antitrust laws by taking action to identify misinformation, including about COVID-19 and COVID-19 vaccines. Kennedy is on leave from the group but is listed as one of its attorneys in the lawsuit.

What role Kennedy might hold if Trump wins on Tuesday remains unclear. Kennedy recently told NewsNation that Trump asked him to “reorganize” agencies including the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the National Institutes of Health, the Food and Drug Administration and some agencies under the Department of Agriculture.

But for now, the former independent presidential candidate has become one of Trump’s top surrogates. Trump frequently mentions having the support of Kennedy, a scion of a Democratic dynasty and the son of former Attorney General Robert Kennedy and nephew of President John F. Kennedy.

Kennedy traveled with Trump Friday and spoke at his rallies in Michigan and Wisconsin.

Trump said Saturday that he told Kennedy: “You can work on food, you can work on anything you want” except oil policy.

“He wants health, he wants women’s health, he wants men’s health, he wants kids, he wants everything,” Trump added.

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