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This Welsh lawmaker is trying to make it illegal for politicians to lie – CBC.ca

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The best way to restore trust in politics is to make it a criminal offence for politicians to lie, says Welsh parliamentarian Adam Price.

Price has brought forward legislation in the Senedd, the Welsh parliament, that would make it a criminal offence for a politician to knowingly deceive the public. Those found guilty would be temporarily disqualified from sitting in the Senedd, or running from office.

While some countries already have laws against lying to parliament, this legislation, if passed, would be the first to bar politicians from lying more generally. 

Price, a member and former leader of the centre-left Plaid Cymru party, tabled the proposal as an amendment to an election reform bill currently before parliament.

It has since been separated from that bill and sent to the standards conduct committee for review for consideration. All four parties in the Senedd have come out in favour of the proposal, and Price says he expects it will be voted on within the next couple of months. 

Price has made truth in politics a focus of his political career since he called for the impeachment of then-prime minister Tony Blair in 2004, for making what turned to be false claims about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq as he sent British troops to war.

Price spoke to As It Happens host Nik Köksal. Here is part of their conversation

I have to ask you. You have to be honest. In all of your years of politics, have you ever lied? Fibbed? Even a white lie, just a little bit?

I hope not. I’d be a real hypocrite if I had. 

This has been part of a long campaign for me. It started with the Iraq War when I was an MP at Westminster. But, you know, here we are almost 20 years later, and I think the issue of truth in politics has never been bigger in democracy worldwide. 

We’ve got falling trust in politics and in politicians. And the question is, what are we going to do about it? Well, here’s something that we could do about it. We could make it a criminal offence for politicians to lie. 

So if there was one lie that sparked this for you, it dates back to the war?

For me, absolutely. And that shows that, you know, this can have the gravest of consequences. Politicians make decisions every day which affect our lives, but they can be life and death decisions, peace and war. 

Setting a standard, a norm, that it is never acceptable for a politician to deliberately lie should be important to all of us. And that’s something that, unfortunately, we haven’t done. 

Maybe we’ve learned to accept the kind of mendacity, the kind of post-truth politics, the wave of disinformation now that is really kind of eroding the foundations of democracy. And we’ve got to draw a line. 

What you said there, though, that’s part of what would make it hard to enforce, I imagine. How do you prove that someone was deliberately lying? They could say they just believed something at the time.

We’ve got to get the balance right, haven’t we? Because what we don’t want to do is to undermine freedom of expression. That’s obviously protected. 

What we’re talking about here is deliberate deception. And, yes, that does set the bar high. You’d have to prove an intent to mislead. 

But that’s what we do in fraud cases. That’s what we do in defamation cases. So there are plenty of legal examples where we do the same. 

And in other professions. If a doctor lies, then they are struck off. If a lawyer lies, then they are disbarred. And yet we seem to have tolerated a democratic culture where politicians can lie with impunity. Well, that’s got to stop. 

At the heart of it, it’s a very simple principle. It is never, ever, acceptable for a politician deliberately to lie.– Adam Price, member of the Welsh parliament

Under the amendment you’re proposing, just specifically, how would it work? What would happen to a Welsh [member of Senedd] if they were to be found to have lied? 

Like any criminal offence, any person could make a complaint. It would have to be investigated, first of all, or considered by the police as to whether there was sufficient evidence for them to conduct an investigation. And then, if there were, then it would go through the process. They would provide a file to the public prosecutor. 

We rule out private prosecutions … in order to prevent this from being kind of weaponized, if you like, by tit-for-tat prosecutions between different political parties or, indeed, by vested interests. So it would only happen if there was sufficient evidence and if it was in the public interest. 

We’ve got some carve-outs there to, for example, provide an opportunity when somebody does say something that’s false, they realize their mistake, there’s a period of 14 days [where] they can actually retract and apologize.

And there are exceptions for national security. There are certain circumstances, a fairly narrow set of circumstances, where it might be legitimate to protect collective security for a politician to use misinformation. 

So there are reasonable protections there. But at the heart of it, it’s a very simple principle. It is never, ever, acceptable for a politician deliberately to lie. 

We’ve got a small number of parliaments around the world, around about half a dozen, where it is already a criminal offence to lie to parliament. So earlier this year, the former chancellor of Austria, for example, Sebastian Kurz, was found guilty of that criminal offence of lying to parliament. The leader of the opposition in the Singaporean parliament is currently accused of a criminal offence of lying to parliament. What we don’t have yet in the world is a … comprehensive ban on deliberate deception by politicians. 

Austria’s former chancellor, Sebastian Kurz, was convicted of lying to parliament earlier this year. (Lisi Niesner/Reuters)

And would it, could it, result in jail time, or are you thinking fines would be enough? 

The punishment that we’ve set out currently is actually neither fines nor imprisonment. It’s simply disqualification from office. So if you were a sitting politician, you’d be removed from office. If you were a candidate, then you couldn’t stand for an electoral cycle. Our term in our parliament is four years. For a politician, that’s a very severe sanction, you know, in terms of their reputation, etc. So that’s what we’re aiming at at the moment. But obviously, you could look at other criminal sanctions as well. 

You mentioned a moment ago the … resignation, at this point, of so many people around the world to the possibility, maybe even likelihood, that politicians are going to lie and are lying regularly. 

If we look at the example of Donald Trump, during his [U.S.] presidential term, the Washington Post documented that he made 30,573 false or misleading claims. But as you well know, many, many Americans, his party as well, seem to continue to support him. So that’s a complicating factor when the public is not only accepting it, but voting in politicians who have demonstrably said things that are not true

I think that example is the reason why we need to legislate, to make deliberate deception a criminal offence. 

The philosopher Hannah Arendt, in a very important couple of essays on lying in politics, said that what happens when you accept political lying is not that the public believes the lies, it’s that they stop believing in the very idea of truth itself. 

And I think that’s what’s happened in sort of Trumpian America, is that all of politics, then, have suffered in terms of public credibility. People start to believe that all politicians are all the same; they’re all liars. And therefore, it has little effect on Trump’s approval rating because he’s kind of priced in this credibility gap, which has grown in politics. 

That’s why we need to set this standard, in order to prevent that happening in democracies in the future and worldwide.

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Review finds no case for formal probe of Beijing’s activities under elections law

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OTTAWA – The federal agency that investigates election infractions found insufficient evidence to support suggestions Beijing wielded undue influence against the Conservatives in the Vancouver area during the 2021 general election.

The Commissioner of Canada Elections’ recently completed review of the lingering issue was tabled Tuesday at a federal inquiry into foreign interference.

The review focused on the unsuccessful campaign of Conservative candidate Kenny Chiu in the riding of Steveston-Richmond East and the party’s larger efforts in the Vancouver area.

It says the evidence uncovered did not trigger the threshold to initiate a formal investigation under the Canada Elections Act.

Investigators therefore recommended that the review be concluded.

A summary of the review results was shared with the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the RCMP. The review says both agencies indicated the election commissioner’s findings were consistent with their own understanding of the situation.

During the exercise, the commissioner’s investigators met with Chinese Canadian residents of Chiu’s riding and surrounding ones.

They were told of an extensive network of Chinese Canadian associations, businesses and media organizations that offers the diaspora a lifestyle that mirrors that of China in many ways.

“Further, this diaspora has continuing and extensive commercial, social and familial relations with China,” the review says.

Some interviewees reported that this “has created aspects of a parallel society involving many Chinese Canadians in the Lower Mainland area, which includes concerted support, direction and control by individuals from or involved with China’s Vancouver consulate and the United Front Work Department (UFWD) in China.”

Investigators were also made aware of members of three Chinese Canadian associations, as well as others, who were alleged to have used their positions to influence the choice of Chinese Canadian voters during the 2021 election in a direction favourable to the interests of Beijing, the review says.

These efforts were sparked by elements of the Conservative party’s election platform and by actions and statements by Chiu “that were leveraged to bolster claims that both the platform and Chiu were anti-China and were encouraging anti-Chinese discrimination and racism.”

These messages were amplified through repetition in social media, chat groups and posts, as well as in Chinese in online, print and radio media throughout the Vancouver area.

Upon examination, the messages “were found to not be in contravention” of the Canada Elections Act, says the review, citing the Supreme Court of Canada’s position that the concept of uninhibited speech permeates all truly democratic societies and institutions.

The review says the effectiveness of the anti-Conservative, anti-Chiu campaigns was enhanced by circumstances “unique to the Chinese diaspora and the assertive nature of Chinese government interests.”

It notes the election was prefaced by statements from China’s ambassador to Canada and the Vancouver consul general as well as articles published or broadcast in Beijing-controlled Chinese Canadian media entities.

“According to Chinese Canadian interview subjects, this invoked a widespread fear amongst electors, described as a fear of retributive measures from Chinese authorities should a (Conservative) government be elected.”

This included the possibility that Chinese authorities could interfere with travel to and from China, as well as measures being taken against family members or business interests in China, the review says.

“Several Chinese Canadian interview subjects were of the view that Chinese authorities could exercise such retributive measures, and that this fear was most acute with Chinese Canadian electors from mainland China. One said ‘everybody understands’ the need to only say nice things about China.”

However, no interview subject was willing to name electors who were directly affected by the anti-Tory campaign, nor community leaders who claimed to speak on a voter’s behalf.

Several weeks of public inquiry hearings will focus on the capacity of federal agencies to detect, deter and counter foreign meddling.

In other testimony Tuesday, Conservative MP Garnett Genuis told the inquiry that parliamentarians who were targeted by Chinese hackers could have taken immediate protective steps if they had been informed sooner.

It emerged earlier this year that in 2021 some MPs and senators faced cyberattacks from the hackers because of their involvement with the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, which pushes for accountability from Beijing.

In 2022, U.S. authorities apparently informed the Canadian government of the attacks, and it in turn advised parliamentary IT officials — but not individual MPs.

Genuis, a Canadian co-chair of the inter-parliamentary alliance, told the inquiry Tuesday that it remains mysterious to him why he wasn’t informed about the attacks sooner.

Liberal MP John McKay, also a Canadian co-chair of the alliance, said there should be a clear protocol for advising parliamentarians of cyberthreats.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Sept. 17, 2024.

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NDP beat Conservatives in federal byelection in Winnipeg

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WINNIPEG – The federal New Democrats have kept a longtime stronghold in the Elmwood-Transcona riding in Winnipeg.

The NDP’s Leila Dance won a close battle over Conservative candidate Colin Reynolds, and says the community has spoken in favour of priorities such as health care and the cost of living.

Elmwood-Transcona has elected a New Democrat in every election except one since the riding was formed in 1988.

The seat became open after three-term member of Parliament Daniel Blaikie resigned in March to take a job with the Manitoba government.

A political analyst the NDP is likely relieved to have kept the seat in what has been one of their strongest urban areas.

Christopher Adams, an adjunct professor of political studies at the University of Manitoba, says NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh worked hard to keep the seat in a tight race.

“He made a number of visits to Winnipeg, so if they had lost this riding it would have been disastrous for the NDP,” Adams said.

The strong Conservative showing should put wind in that party’s sails, Adams added, as their percentage of the popular vote in Elmwood-Transcona jumped sharply from the 2021 election.

“Even though the Conservatives lost this (byelection), they should walk away from it feeling pretty good.”

Dance told reporters Monday night she wants to focus on issues such as the cost of living while working in Ottawa.

“We used to be able to buy a cart of groceries for a hundred dollars and now it’s two small bags. That is something that will affect everyone in this riding,” Dance said.

Liberal candidate Ian MacIntyre placed a distant third,

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Sept. 16, 2024

The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

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Trudeau says ‘all sorts of reflections’ for Liberals after loss of second stronghold

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OTTAWA – Prime Minister Justin Trudeau say the Liberals have “all sorts of reflections” to make after losing a second stronghold in a byelection in Montreal Monday night.

His comments come as the Liberal cabinet gathers for its first regularly scheduled meeting of the fall sitting of Parliament, which began Monday.

Trudeau’s Liberals were hopeful they could retain the Montreal riding of LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, but those hopes were dashed after the Bloc Québécois won it in an extremely tight three-way race with the NDP.

Louis-Philippe Sauvé, an administrator at the Institute for Research in Contemporary Economics, beat Liberal candidate Laura Palestini by less than 250 votes. The NDP finished about 600 votes back of the winner.

It is the second time in three months that Trudeau’s party lost a stronghold in a byelection. In June, the Conservatives defeated the Liberals narrowly in Toronto-St. Paul’s.

The Liberals won every seat in Toronto and almost every seat on the Island of Montreal in the last election, and losing a seat in both places has laid bare just how low the party has fallen in the polls.

“Obviously, it would have been nicer to be able to win and hold (the Montreal riding), but there’s more work to do and we’re going to stay focused on doing it,” Trudeau told reporters ahead of this morning’s cabinet meeting.

When asked what went wrong for his party, Trudeau responded “I think there’s all sorts of reflections to take on that.”

In French, he would not say if this result puts his leadership in question, instead saying his team has lots of work to do.

Bloc leader Yves-François Blanchet will hold a press conference this morning, but has already said the results are significant for his party.

“The victory is historic and all of Quebec will speak with a stronger voice in Ottawa,” Blanchet wrote on X, shortly after the winner was declared.

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh and his party had hoped to ride to a win in Montreal on the popularity of their candidate, city councillor Craig Sauvé, and use it to further their goal of replacing the Liberals as the chief alternative to the Conservatives.

The NDP did hold on to a seat in Winnipeg in a tight race with the Conservatives, but the results in Elmwood-Transcona Monday were far tighter than in the last several elections. NDP candidate Leila Dance defeated Conservative Colin Reynolds by about 1,200 votes.

Singh called it a “big victory.”

“Our movement is growing — and we’re going to keep working for Canadians and building that movement to stop Conservative cuts before they start,” he said on social media.

“Big corporations have had their governments. It’s the people’s time.”

New Democrats recently pulled out of their political pact with the government in a bid to distance themselves from the Liberals, making the prospects of a snap election far more likely.

Trudeau attempted to calm his caucus at their fall retreat in Nanaimo, B.C, last week, and brought former Bank of Canada governor Mark Carney on as an economic adviser in a bid to shore up some credibility with voters.

The latest byelection loss will put more pressure on him as leader, with many polls suggesting voter anger is more directed at Trudeau himself than at Liberal policies.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published Sept. 17, 2024.

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